The point that she’s so-called shows that she got certain need for Susanna

The new genealogists every consider it high one Nicholas’ wife Clementia is integrated right here since the, significantly less than typical activities, she’d never be mentioned. When Susanna in the certain later go out got over to a special guardian, the latest wife of that guardian wasn’t said.

This should signify King John invested a bit truth be told there and the potential for a keen amorous liaison with Clementia can be acquired

What follows here’s an idea advanced of the certain eminent genealogists, however it is fair to state that brand new conclusions was hotly contested!

So it concept results in a wonderful and you can interested ‘twist’ on the facts off Joanna, which could attract admirers of HBD!

On the surface, there would be nothing to highly recommend one relationship involving the hostage, Susanna out-of Wales and you will Clementia, spouse off Nicholas de Verdun. However, sensation of particular genealogists that have overseas hostages, such youngsters, has been which they was often placed having household members, or no have been available.

Jumping toward 1236, there’s an entry regarding Tewkesbury annals hence pertains to Joanna’s mommy while the “King Clemencie!” They reads simply:

Now, it is known your mom off Joanna is actually entitled Clementia (Clemence?

In this instance the monk is evidently indulging inside gothic legalism. Ahead of their unique dying, Joanna got legitimised from the Pope. On the basis of that legitimisation, brand new Tewksbury monk plainly took they up on himself to raise Joanna’s mommy for the reputation of King, because if their unique mom was King John’s partner! It is true yet not, you to King John and you may Clementia was indeed never ever hitched. Because of the discussing Joanna’s mother due to the fact “Queen” Clementia, new monk who submitted Joanna’s dying try appearing their significant respect to own Joanna, however attempting to change the true products.

When it comes to name from Clementia de- Verdun, Paget suggests that she try brand new daughter of Roger de Dauntsey, from Wiltshire. You to genealogist takes into account they tall one Clementia acclaimed away from Wiltshire due to the fact he has got noticed that Queen John got an effective accessory to one to condition, they being the family of his best partners, the fresh new Longespee, ilies and you can Geoffrey Fitz Peter.

Genealogists discovered that name ‘Clementia’ was most unusual certainly one of English noblewomen of this months. In one dining table of ladies’ names that was compiled, there have been just several incidents of your own label “Clementia” off a total of 1407 ladies in new shot! The point that individuals entitled Clementia would-be for the Susanna is considered tall.

Very! Evidence try effective, yet not conclusive, one to inside 1228, Susanna, given that an effective hostage, obtained off to the proper care of their maternal granny, now spouse off Nicholas de- Verdun!!

The latest Scottish genealogists of one’s MacDuffs’ keep you to Susanna ferch Llywelyn came to be 1214 in the Gwynnedd, Wales and you will passed away c. 1259 during the Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland. She hitched Malcolm MacDuff, Earl kvinner Burmesisk of Fife in 1230 together with two people: Sir Colbran MacDuff, Earl regarding Fife, born 1245, died 1270 and you may MacDuff MacDuff created 1247.

However, you will find restrict arguments to any or all so it supposition! King John got many mistresses and perhaps possibly 7 illegitimate children. The caretaker away from Joanna could have been created circa 1172 and you may marriageable circa 1184. Joanna herself was created circa 1191 (fourteen yrs . old during the time of their particular relationships to help you Llywelyn). Rohese, this new known legitimate child off Nicholas de- Verdun and his partner Clementia was created circa 1210-1213. When the Clementia is actually the caretaker out-of Joanna, she would have been in their later 30’s, very early 40’s whenever giving birth to help you Rohese! Not hopeless, particular state, but unlikely.